Naina Soni - Shane Discussion

It is evident that early in the novel, Bob is awed by and idolizes the dangerous, cool, mysterious Shane. In fact, in chapter two, Bob describes Shane by calling him a "man like father in whom a boy could believe in the simple knowing that what was beyond comprehension was still clean and solid and right" (p. 91). He treats Shane like a role model, or a father-figure, who is good, just, and sincere. Hence, it is easy to understand why Bob tries so hard to stop Shane from leaving his family after Shane has killed both Fletcher and Wilson.
In the midst of the conversation, Shane questions his manhood since he has taken away the lives of others. To Shane, a man does not take away something from another (perhaps a reason why he never acted on the bond he shared with Marian). He also describes Joe as a "real man," telling Bob, "A man is what he is, Bob, and there's no breaking the mold. I tried that and I've lost. But I reckon it was in the cards from the moment I saw a freckled kid on a rail up the road there and a real man behind him, the kind that could back him for the chance another kid never had" (p. 263). He tells Bob to not mourn Shane's leaving, but to rather appreciate his father for what he is; even though Shane, Bob's hero, is leaving, Bob has another hero to look up to - his father.

Shane and the ideas of manhood

I find it really interesting that Schaefer chose Bob to be the narrator instead of someone like Shane or Joe.  Personally, I think it is because the audience can then see the two different masculine man through the eyes of a small child.  Shane and Joe both believe that the other one is a true man.  After reading this book, I found some similar characteristics that both men have.  They both are loyal, trustworthy, chivalrous, dependable, and nonviolent unless there is no other way.  Notice that all of these things are actions, which shows that Schaefer believes that actions make up the man.  There was even a line that Shane said stating that the knowledge that a man has is not important, it is what he is that counts.

Another part I would like to comment on would be the concept of guns.  When I first read that Shane never carries a gun, I did not understand why he did that, just as Bob also wondered the same thing.  In the end, he finally uses his gun but he begins to question if he is a real man or not.  I believe that in this novel, the gun takes away from manhood.  Instilling fear should not be considered being a man.

On a side note, I remembered that we were going to talk about the Super Bowl last Tuesday if we had school.  I watched it with a couple of guy friends and whenever their team scored, it was interesting to see them hitting their chest too.  I also noticed that all the commercials were directed towards men.  The two I remember the most are the Dockers "I do not wear pants" commercial and the Dove "I am a man and I am comfortable in my own skin" commercial.  I was actually wondering why most of the ads were directed towards men.  A bunch of women get passionate about watching these big games too!  Any thoughts?

Amy Cheng

Achmed Turay: Shane Discussion

     If you focus on Shane as Schaefer’s ideal representation of a man, you will see that manhood is not so much about the outward display of strength and physical prowess as it is about the ability to persevere through inward struggles and endure tough situations. When viewed in this perspective, all of Shane’s actions throughout the story make sense. It was Shane’s inner resolve, not his physical prowess, which enabled him to keep working hard to cut down that tree stump in the Starrett’s yard. It was Shane’s mastery of himself and his inner emotions that prevented him from initially fighting back when Chris tried to goad and provoke him. It was Shane’s emotional toughness that allowed him to temporarily incapacitate Joe when he was about to set off to meet Fletcher and Wilson, even though he deeply cared about Joe. And finally, it was Shane’s determination that allowed him to keep going, even after he had gotten shot by Wilson. Based on Shane’s actions, it is clear that being a man is about never giving in to the easy way of doing things.

Irony, Dockers, and Manvertising Ad

Slate.com recommended this blog post Irony, Dockers, and Manvertising about the Dockers ad and other manvertising ads. It's an excellent post. We should definitely talk about this new type of advertising --
 manvertising.

Joshua Thompson: Shane Discussion

I find it interesting to examine Bob’s position in the novel. Bob offers a unique perspective that focuses directly on manhood and masculinity. Bob’s point of view allows the reader to dissect Joe’s and Shane’s masculinity. Since Bob is attempting to become a man he scrutinizes every aspect of Shane and his father. According to Bob, it seems that Shane is a hero/real man because he has an “invincible completeness” (p. 254). Especially to boys, manhood is linked to invincibility and this becomes apparent when Bob runs to Shane to be sure that he could have killed Wilson without being shot if Shane had been in practice. However, this contrasts with the standards Bob holds his father to. Joe does not have to be invincible; Bob still considers him a real man even after Shane bests him. This double standard raises questions about who the script of masculinity applies to and if it bends for some people, such as fathers, or not.

Amanda Olagunju: Shane Discussion

I don’t think that Shane was riding around the West looking for a way to prove himself as a man. The novel suggests that he was running from a dark past and that he wanted a future free of fighting and full of the self-control and restraint that he displayed during his first meeting with Chris. It says on page 162, “Since his session with Chris he seemed to have won a kind of inner peace.” He was looking for serenity, and after his first encounter with Chris, most viewed him as weak, but he didn't care because he had found what he was looking for, and it wasn't a proof of manliness. And by the time he had learned about the dispute with Fletcher, the Starretts had become like family to Shane. He helped them, not to prove that he was a man, but to protect his loved ones. I think he would have rather kept his serenity than get involved in a dispute and loose it in order to prove that he was a man. His actions weren’t about himself, but the Starretts, people who were worth the risk of his inner peace. On page 162 it also says, "I think he did not care what anyone anywhere thought of him... But he did care what they thought of father."

Also, I know that I had an issue with seeing Unforgiven, being that it's in the library and school has been closed and covered in snow since Friday. If anybody else has run into this problem, you can watch it at http://www.novamov.com/video/4a6570cc5ca0f for free and without having to download anything.

Comment from Sibbie

First time writing to a blog, and I'm helpless. So, I've signed in as anonymous, but this is Sibbie. I've enjoyed all these comments, so keep they coming. Here's two definitions that might further the discussion, as you'll recall I made mention of both the myth of masculinity and the American West. Myth is closely allied with ideology. Myth: an uncontested and generally unconscious assumption that is so widely shared within a culture that it is considered natural instead of recognized as a product of unique historical circumstances. Ideology: those unspoken collective understandings, conventions, stories, and cultural practices that uphold systems of social power.

Jacob Noble: Shane Discussion

 While it is true that the novel concerns itself primarily with manhood, a close look reveals that there are subtle concerns about masculinity. At various points things that Mrs. Starrett does and as are referred to as being "women's ideas" and a great deal is made early on about her inability to understand what the men are doing outside, and downright calling them foolish for it even though she later has her own stump. Masculinity only seems to take a back seat to Manhood because women are so strictly delegated to their separate sphere.

Shane's line to Fletcher contains the seed of a contradiction that sprouts later`when Shane retrieves his gun and Bob realizes it is "part of the man" (241) and Shane has been incomplete without it for this entire time. The earlier scene where Bob gets an old, revolver that doesn't work also reemphasizes the importance of guns in terms of manhood, as it shows that Bob is still a boy, while suggesting his growth towards manhood, and Shane's ability to teach him how to use a gun properly seems a proof of his own manhood. Bob also waiting for "the time I could have one that would really shoot." (140) because that would be proof of his growing out of boyhood and into manhood. It is clear from these moments that guns were an integral part of what it meant to be a man in the Territories, yet Shane so clearly insults Wilson's manhood because of his guns, and Shane is shown in his own right to be more of a man early on for being comfortable without a gun when "Most men did not feel full dressed without one." (126) So, the gun comes across as both an inseparable part of manhood and at the same time something boyish that must be outgrown. Perhaps Schaefer is playing off the practical necessity of guns in the largely lawless world of the Territories while at the same time remarking on the danger and violence they represent. A man should know how to use a gun, but even more a man should know how not to. A boy will fail to make the second distinction.

What seems far more troubling is that the book only seems to recognize three males in the entire book as men. Joe Starrett and Shane are both described clearly as men, and it is suggested by the end that so is Chris, or he's at least on his way. Every other male seems to be either still a boy, or something else. Something that might be called a man, but really isn't. The other homesteaders all follow Starrett like scared sheep, while the cowboys are, well, cowBOYs, as is Wilson by Shane's accusation, and Fletcher is of course a weasel of some breed. In a land where so few boys ever grow into proper men one has to wonder what becomes of the identity of all of the rest of them.

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Josh White: Shane Discussion

Before the climax of the novel, after Shane has knocked out Joe so he can ride into town alone, Marian asks him if he is facing Wilson and Fletcher for her. He says, "No, Marian. Could I separate you in my mind and afterwards be a man?" (Page 104 in my book). Shane is saying that it is more significant and thus more manly to fight for an entire family and their cause than to fight for a single woman. When he makes a sacrifice for the family, it is a matter of honor rather than a matter of social chivalry. Furthermore, if he were to abandon this path and act only for Marian, it would make him less of a man; it is often looked down upon when men change their minds or lack resolution.

kcencula@umd.edu: Shane Discussion

I find that the novel brings up quite an interesting question about the make-out
of masculinity. How much of one's masculinity should be defined by their
actions as opposed to their physical characteristics, and vice-versa?

Young Bob Starrett notices that Shane would have "looked frail" alongside his
father's "square, solid bulk." But Schaefer really does promote the idea that
there is SO MUCH more to masculinity than the body. Although Shane dwarfs in
comparison to Joe Starrett, he is arguably the most "masculine" character in the
entire novel, even moreso than Joe, who acts as the authoritative voice of the
farmers.

On another note...

Did anybody else see the Super Bowl commercial for the Dodge Charger, where
it showed several different men of varying ages and races saying things along
the lines of "I will take out the trash...I will pick the kids of from school." It then
flashed to video of the car zooming along. I don't remember the exact wording
of the voiceover, but what this ad screamed to me was "Claim authority over
your life. Be a man!"   ... Just thought it was a fantastic commercial that
depended almost exclusively on men's perceptions of their manhood.

Amanda Kary: Shane Discussion

I agree that most of novel explored the idea of men taking charge of their situation. I also think this novel does an a good job of highlighting the fact that men are defined by what they do, a fact that is well exhibited by Shane's comment about Wilson's gun. What I  find interesting is how Shane arrives at the Starrett home and just decides to become involved in the dispute with Fletcher. It seems almost foolish to me for a man to ride around the West looking for an way to prove himself. I don't see the same foolishness in Joe however who at least had a vested interest in his land. As Marian points out on page 177, "It would just kill Joe to lose this place ...But he promised me this place when we were married. He had it in his mind for all the first years." Given what the land means to Joe I respect him wanting to go out and stand up for himself and defend what is his. With Shane, I see it as more of a need to seek out a way to prove himself, which I think speaks to Shane's need to prove that he is a man.

Steve Hutzell: Shane Discussion

I'd like to point out a quote from page 233 during the moment when Fletcher, Wilson, and two cowboys approach Joe Starrett's front porch with their proposition.  At the very end of the conversation Shane says to Wilson, "You talk like a man because of that flashy hardware you're wearing.  Strip it away and you'd shrivel down to boy size."

From this statement, one might conclude that as part of the Western myth, being a "man" has a lot to do with reaching adulthood and becoming more mature.  Not once in the entire book did I see a reference to femininity or masculinity, but only manhood.  There was a lot of talk about Joe being the one real man in the valley because he stood up for what was right and wanted to protect those who were being pressured by Fletcher to leave.  That being said, it was expected that a man take on these responsibilities--and it did not mean that someone was not a "man" if they were not as courageous and stubborn as Joe or Shane.

As for the cover of the novel, Shane is depicted as a very confident man with sharp edges to his body, muscles, and face.  He is well put together with his shirt tucked in and a belt to keep everything in place.  The black hat that contrasts the tan color of everything else in the picture makes you realize that his eyes are hidden.  Just as Shane had come into the Starretts' lives as a stranger, so he left as one, too.  Perhaps the author is saying that it takes more than just a glance to understand what it is that really defines a man.  Shane left a mark on the valley that no one will forget--that may not have happened if Joe had been quick to judge Shane based on his mysterious presence.

-Steve Hutzell